Nope this isn't a rant about the US putting women in combat. For one thing if you have an opinion on that subject it is more than likely not going to be changed short of actual real life repercussions one way or another so why bother. For another if the powers that be really wanted to make men and women equal in combat units, and really thought they were equal on that score, the first thing they would do is require all the darling little girls to fill out some selective service cards at the post office along with the boys. The pro-females in combat people seem to be suspiciously silent on the selective service thing though.
In the US, women in combat is about the officer corp pure and simple. It's about slipping some radical fems in at the bottom and then skyrocketing them to the top of the chain once they have a bit of combat command time on paper to point at. Whatever effect that will have on the military is not something that is going to effect us as preppers/survivalist/homesteaders any time soon so let em do what they want. They're going to anyway.
After I finished my enlisted stint in the Army and being a 13 foxtrot which was then called a forward observer but these days is called something else but is essentially combat arms I had very little contact with Women in uniform. Probably a blessing that saved me from some serious disciplinary action but we will never know. However after coming back to the states, starting college and remaining in the reserves while starting my RoTC stint I had my first up front and person experience with Females in Foxholes.
Back in those days prior service students could contract RoTC at I believe 30 credit hours and were excused from taking the first two years of Military Science courses. I was however interested in one of the 200 level MS courses being offered which if I remember right was a military history course that also counted towards my degree anyway. The Major who was teaching that course picked up on me quick and basically recruited me into some of the RoTC activities before I contracted. At the time I thought it was fun to be honest, although I figured out the payoff for the MS cadre pretty quick. Those chiefs were short indians in a bad way if you get my meaning and I was the perfect grey area recruit. Technically I was still in the Army, was still a Spec 4, had my license for several different vehicles and could be brought along pretty much with no questions asked. They could use me for all sorts of stuff that was generally beneath the officers and E-8 they had on staff. There was also a very worn looking E-5 running around but I rarely saw him.
The upside for me was I got to play with stuff and do things I normally wouldn't have had the chance to mess with like being one of the Op-for aggressor guys during their little camp out maneuvers or running an ambush with the 60 and watching the turtles roll around in the dirt. That type of thing. It was fun although I didn't get paid for it they did give me some extra credit points for later on.
It was during one of these maneuvers that I found myself attempting to penetrate a line of foxholes filled with MS3 and 4 cadets at around 2AM on a stormy but pleasant September night in the boondocks of Fort Leonard Wood. The underbrush was so thick I had my doubts about actually making it into the perimeter and besides we (There were three cadets with me) had been told our job was to assault em and shake em up so we really were suppose to get spotted and pop off a few rounds of blanks before melting away. Maybe throw one of my artillery simulators I had been given. That was the fun part.
So we are slowly creeping in and I thought we were some 30 feet or so in front of their holes when I hear this very male voice say.
"C'mon baby no one is going to know"
It was then that I figured out I was right on top of a foxhole that was being "manned" at present by one hormone focused guy and a girl pretty intent on keeping things at a more subdued level. By the sound of things she wasn't saying no but she wasn't as comfortable about the situation as he was. Who could blame her?
To conclude this long story we aggressors quietly slipped by and took all the cadet's ammo (blanks) out of their cut-V then lobbed some simulators into the command tent and ran for the hills out the back where we weren't suppose to go really. The RoTC cadre guys weren't too happy about the whole ad-libbed assault but I just explained it away that we managed to walk right through by accident and never did tell em about the foxhole make out session.
Now I could tell you a bunch more horror stories of mixing the genders in the military but the truth is for many duties Men and Women are pretty much equal. The real problem with Women in the military has as much to do with the current structure/environment/attitude and expectations of military organization as it does with any gender differences. A commander of whatever rank in the military cannot make moves to reduce the risk without acting on suspicions and probability in many cases and that will just get him into trouble. His hands are tied.
In a grid down defensive situation we are not hampered by political correctness or gender myths and posturing and there will be many women who will be just as good in many situations as men. All we need to do is use a little common sense and not put two 20 year old mixed couples in a foxhole together for a few hours in the middle of the night. Or we could take it even further and not put two suspiciously gay couples of whatever gender together. It isn't like we will have anyone to answer to over it.
Another words in the times ahead of us we will actually be able to use common sense. Now my first reaction due to prior bad experiences is to avoid using women in a defensive role. There is also that hardwired Male protection thing to deal with but the truth is as I said Women are just as good at sentry duty and shooting as men. You will just need to evaluate each individual on their own to find out who is prepared for what and capable.
Just my thoughts on the subject anyway.
Oh and the picture was for MuddyValley he was complaining about the lack of such the other day.
Keep Prepping Everyone!!!
Your comments are pretty much spot on, and in agreement with my observations from active duty in the '70s.
ReplyDeleteRP - Luckily even by the late 80's things weren't too out of hand yet. But I wouldn't want to have to deal with them today.
DeleteHere's the real question. It's post-collapse. Martial law has been declared. There are rumors people are disappearing in the night, but not enough to cause real alarm. Law abiding, upstanding citizens are still being left alone, as far as you know. So the Small Hold security measures are merely heightened, not on full alert.
ReplyDeleteOne night you wake up when you hear a vehicle pulling up your driveway. It's 3AM. It's a black suburban. You wake everyone, grab your battle rifle and night vision and sneak everyone out of the back window to avoid any pre-set traps. After getting your loved ones on their way to the rendezvous point, you sneak back to the house look around to the front porch. The suburban is pulling up to the house.
There are three armed soldiers in fatigues that have been pre-placed at your front door. You notice they are small and slim. You raise your gun. Suddenly it dawns on you. They are women. You look at the soldiers exiting the Suburban. Also women.
Assuming you believe that even if they didn't get you, they're going to get someone else later (in other words, it's game on), could you do what you had to do?
Anon - That's a good question and one I don't really know if I am prepared to be able to answer truthfully. I wanna say I don't care what gender they are and will do what needs to be done. I would also say I have some experience in a low level way to a melee that includes men and women and it is not always as easy to determine the sex of your target as some might think with gear on.
DeleteI will just leave it at that though.
To Anonymous: You would probably already be dead so no dilemma, because if they had any sense, they would have off-loaded a block away and already stationed someone at the back of the house.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the pic PP! :-)
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MV - Your welcome :)
DeleteYour right they prolly would, although that wouldn't work so well here but only due to terrain so they would do something similar I suspect.
Yeah I know it's unlikely you'd be sneaking anywhere out of the house if they were coming to get you, but the hypothetical had to include a person being in real, obvious danger yet still having the time and ability to make that choice.
DeleteI wouldn't want to fight women and I wouldn't want to fight with women. I would be hard-pressed to do what needed to be done either against women or with women in my presence.
Anon - I understood your question and the reason for the scenario. As I said though I am not sure yet exactly how I will react and likely won't know until it is time. But it is something we should think about because there are no rules for women these days when it comes to that scenario. We more than likely will be confronted with it.
DeleteI Picture a well trained all women unit that can sneak in and out of areas they are small fast and deceptively dangerous. Times have changed since your era your just as likely to come up on a position with two hormonal men going at it as you would a man, woman scenario. I'm a woman I served
ReplyDeleteAdrianna - I would disagree with a female attack squad in that respect I believe the differences in the genders would be telling but that is another discussion. As for Male on Male action I haven't seen any data that confirms men are any more likely to be into that sort of thing more or less than they were when I was in my 20's so I am not convinced it is to a level equal to hetero playtime. Now if there is some data that shows men have the equivalent same sex contact equal to women then please by all means point me to it but my observations do not seem to fit your prediction to date.
Deletewomen in combat is about the officer corp pure and simple. It's about slipping some radical fems in at the bottom and then skyrocketing them to the top of the chain once they have a bit of combat command time on paper to point at.
ReplyDeleteGood point.
BT - They have been trying to get female combat officers in since my time in the service. Back in the 80's many of the pro-female in combat types used to openly admit it but I don't see the same honesty in this latest round of discussion.
DeleteA friend who retired from the Pentagon as a LTC (his father was a general officer in WWII) told me the services have become repugnant as minorities are promoted over WASP males who have better qualifications. He gave me a few examples and is totally disgusted.
ReplyDeleteOfficers should be picked by the men as they were in the Late Unpleasantness.
BT - It was getting bad when I got out. I could see the writing on the wall and so when they started giving me the old up or out speech and mentioned the lack of slots I took the money and ran. I really thought I was going to be mobilized for Desert Storm but somehow it never happened so other than one little fling out in Utah I have been out of the Military sphere since the mid 90's. I do however still have a few friends that stayed in one made brigadier not too long ago and was also recently at the Pentagon. I asked him once if they were going to do anything about this mess and all he ever said was "stand by". That was almost two years ago now though.
DeleteI emphatically advise all not to join the military these days.
ReplyDeleteBT - I am wishy washy on that. Part of me would tell any young man to stay way clear of it but then the other part of me does still appreciate the memories, experiences and such I gained from my time in. It was not a career of course but I still do not feel left out when the big boys start bragging. I would hate to rob a young man of that but then again it may not be something a young man can get in the military these days.
DeleteI know little about the modern military but I have worked for females in the corporate world and though often smarter than many of the male bosses, they followed orders to the bitter end, they tended to do what ever it took to do the work even if there was a smarter way or it was obvious that the project was not going to work. A male boss is more likely to go back upstairs and give an alternative to the plan that won't work but women were hesitant to do so. Apply this to combat and it might not end up so good. I do know history and the Germans lost Normandy by strictly following orders.
ReplyDeleteSF - The funny thing about American soldiers in my opinion anyway is how they tend to work around even bad officers Sometimes in very lethal ways. I really don't think you see that as much in ay other military but I could be wrong. My experiences with Female's in charge is that you have to handle each one like a mini-Napoleon you cannot lead em nor tell em anything all you can do is put stuff in their view and hope they can see it for themselves and always give em a way to convince themselves it was their idea to begin with.
DeleteNow that being said I am not making a statement about women in general just the ones who have a driving need to be in charge and many men also fit that mold I might add.
Well, I'll say this. You don't shy away from controversy. I'm surprised, really, that you never have any ardent feminists or trolls attacking your blog. Seems like it would be a magnet for that sort of thing. Do you ever get emails telling you in great detail how messed up you are? I do, and I don't usually get into controversial issues, as you well know.
ReplyDeleteHarry - I do occasionally and I get trolls quite a bit as well. I got one just Saturday telling me I was jealous of Rawls because I don't buy into his "American Redoubt" let's sell you some property scheme. It happens but ya know where has playing nice gotten us so far my friend? How does only covering those feel good not pissing anyone off topics help us in the end when it's time to go to work? Some people would prefer these controversial topic are not addressed but they will have to be before too long and we might as well learn the terrain before hand.
DeleteAlso Harry I think they may not bother with me because they know it won't matter to me and I will more than likely have fun with sparring back with em. If they sense their words can hurt they will use em if they know it won't matter they rarely bother.
DeletePP - you don't even want to get me started on trying to compose a comment on this post. i served in the military and met all of my trade's requirements...i had a nice desk job for my entire career and they would arm your grandmother before arming my trade to fight. i know of bending the rules for female officers in order to get them some combat experience...in order to push them up the ranks faster. you might not remember that long before they did that with females in the CF, they did it with the Quebecois French...almost none of whom could speak a word of english! but we had to push them up in the ranks toute suite and i just want you to think about that for a minute....there's a white guy who has all of the actual training required but can't speak a word of english...it's a whole nuther pile of crazy i tell you. anyway, i should end off here. otherwise i might start up a lot of swearing. yes, i served 10yrs AT A DESK JOB and did 2tours of Alert and i did it proudly and met every requirement. should i have been allowed to join the airborne or SAR or the infantry - well, sure, if they had have lowered every single requirement!!! you know how i feel about this stuff buddy!
ReplyDeleteif you want me to rant and rave some more, just yell. i'll be back!
your friend,
kymber
kymber - I agree raising anyone up just because of their origin be it male, female, or martian is wrong. It all should be merit based period and if a woman wants to be in the infantry or whatever and can dot he job than she should be allowed in but knowing what comes with it is part of it and that means absolutely no special treatment and no coddling. Sadly that's not how it works in the US military or at least not when I was in there.
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