Some really good advice and postings floating around the various blogs today on barter, starving the government and protecting ourselves from the government theft it uses to pay for it's over reach.
The problem as I see it however is anyone thinking about or attempting to enter the barter lifestyle either now or during a post collapse situation is almost sure to be dependent one way or another on the ownership of real property. Perhaps not directly owned by the producer but with only a few exceptions any long term bartering production is going to have to pull resources from somewhere and it's a good bet someone is going to own that little bit of somewhere and the raw materials you are bartering for.
Taxes have long been determined to be Constitutional but are they fair? I would say that yes taxes as we have them set up are in fact fair under a Constitutional Republic where those voting on their taxes have skin in the game and a fair say in what is taxed and at what rate.
Under an open Democracy? Not so much. It becomes little more than Government sponsored theft by the mob. Of course the mob is going to see nothing wrong with taxing the minority group. It doesn't effect the mob directly.
Need more money to float teacher pensions? Why let's increase the property taxes on the 30% who have to pay them. Ok let's vote on it. Why look at that 70% of the voters think it's a good idea....
Imagine that?
This is in fact the trap that Benjamin Franklin warned us about all those years ago. A Democracy eventually traps enough citizens to the payout that what is considered out right theft 200 years ago is now looked at as just something we have to live with.
Under normal circumstances the entire process would have fallen apart long before we got to this stage. Under FIAT currency, Usury and government debt being masked by the Federal Reserve however it just keeps growing.
Besides the danger of Mob rule democracy taxing property ownership right out of existence it would also quickly endanger any sort of barter plans a prepper might have. Bartering may let you fly under the radar on some taxes but you cannot hide the property that supplies those barter resources from the Government Mob nearly so easy. Even in a barter existence you the producer will have to pay those property taxes.
Personally I cannot think of any barter-able skill that doesn't in some way rely on raw materials besides prostitution and some repair skills.
Think about it and if you can see a barter item/skill that doesn't rely on real property in some way and is therefore easily taxed I would like to hear about it.
Maybe Medical Skills?
Keep Prepping Everyone!!!
Most people will not be able to use barter to get what they need past the point where the physical property they own, which is desirable to others, has been traded. Even for a person with renewable resources or in demand skills, his clients will have to have something to trade him. When they don't, he's out of business.
ReplyDeleteHarry - Perhaps repairs and labor will always have some market. Maybe not. I don't know though I plan on being a producer and I am sure for a good long while a scavenger could still find stuff I would trade for. That is as long as I have the property I need to produce myself.
DeleteThat is the $64,000 question I don't have an answer for that one.
ReplyDeleteStevierayv - Well I can think of a girl in a shirt who has some proving to trade :)
DeleteSenior and I have been stock piling liquor and seeds as barter items for when the collapse happens.
ReplyDeleteThe next thing we are looking at is cigerettes. When they can't get booze or a smoke, folks would be willing to trade anything when they are "Jones-n"
I think another good barter item to have on hand would be coffee.
JuGM - You guys should look into growing tobacco on your country estate.
DeleteAnd yes I think some investment in long storage coffee beans would be an excellent idea.
It may be that it won't be so much bartering but helping some nearby people. Like plowing a garden for someone for some of the vegetables or helping each other get in hay. We don't know what shortages will happen but more manpower may be needed. Making moonshine could be an option if you have a lot of corn and no way to transport it. Things like that.
ReplyDeleteSF - There is a fantasy end of the world series out there were basically the medieval rein-actors of today take over the US. "Dies the Fire" I think is the name of one of the books. Anyway in it the author (Serling? I think) mentions that manual farm labor is the most sought after skill needed after the collapse. f course it is also the most available worker pool too.
DeleteWell I wouldn't worry about it too much, just add the tax increase into the price. For instance if I had a bunch of rent houses and property tax was going up 10% I'd just send out notices rent is going up 10% and my problem is solved. Hell I might even charge letter fees to cover the cost of the notices. After all they voted for the tax so why shouldn't they pay it? There is no rich old man whipping out his wallet proclaiming "awe shucks, they got me again."
ReplyDeleteTaxes are paid by the poor and the poorer you are the more you will pay.
Best,
Dan
Dan - In many ways you are right but that doesn't help the small farm, frugal or sustainable crowd that cannot swallow the increase nor readily pass it on to others.
DeleteIt also doesn't protect from out right seizures.
I don't think that you can get make a system work without protecting property rites of some sort or you get the "Tragedy of the Commons" though people seem to need to relearn that lesson every 3-4 generaions. Well educated specialist need a fairly safe and stable society that will support education to some extent even if it is just providing the basic needs so some one can take time to learn new skills rather than work many hours just to survive.
ReplyDeleteI have learned a lot of first aid skills and I try to stockup on medical items that would be of use of trained medical personel and are beyond my training. I could set a bone or support a sick person but even minor surgery is beyond me. But having some of the tools of the trade for a doctor or nurse is fairly easy to stock up.
Sort of the same thing of stocking up on nails or screws and tools of a carpenter. I ain't no carpenter but I have some stuff for doing the job.
There is a reason villages, tribes and clans still exist and it's because they work at a local level. Oh they are not big money makers but they do work to give many people a good shot at survival.
MASR - I think you hit the nail on the head. People have to relearn it every so often. Yes a heavy tax burden will eventually destroy the entire thing but I am more worried about surviving that phase right now. People will put off pain even if it is inevitable if they can push it off on someone else for a while.
DeletePP,
ReplyDeleteI would have to 2nd JUGM's post. I would also add junk silver to the barter table.