Two more days until March is here and March always gets me thinking about trees. Checking to see if all my little ones survived the Winter. Seeing which areas I can open up and add more trees into. That sort of thing.
One skill I really want to learn someday is fruit tree grafting since I learned the hardway that a fruit tree planted from a seed rarely produces the same as it's parent, or at least the parent you know about which might be the real problem. I believe being able to graft your own fruit trees will be a highly sought after skill as things continue to slide but that is another post.
Overall I can't say my experiences with fruit trees to date have been totally encouraging to be honest. Getting them to live wasn't so hard after a few tips I learned here and there and some good advice from readers. I am sure I will do another post soon on planting new fruit trees and the method that has worked well around the Small-Hold.
No, getting them to take root and live so far seems to be a trick we have learned. The issue seems to be finding exactly what varieties actually do well and compliment each other around here and researching the types and varieties has not always produced the results promised. Maybe some of the trees were mis-labled or something but I suspect the real issue is that a number of the varieties respond to climate conditions in such a way that they do not always follow what the advertised normal says it should be. Particularly in their flowering/blooming cycle. I would say the number one cause for fruit failure we have is weather related, maybe. We get a warm stretch and it causes some trees to bloom or partially bloom and then a quick freeze or it is warm enough for one variety but not quite enough for the other and we get separate bloom periods for types that need a cross pollinator.
These problems have been something that has developed more the last few years than ever before. About five years ago we started losing our old fruit trees. The old varieties we had were obviously a mixture of types, not only of reds but a couple of green varieties as well. Up until about 2010 we were putting away gallons and gallons of apples every year and giving away more than that. We had so many apples they were a real pain to mow over and picking them up all the time. Yet slowly the old trees started dying out and production kept falling.
Now it could be that the problems we have been seeing are an issue of mature trees over younger ones and it may work itself out eventually. I can only say this same issue does not seem to appear with our nut trees but if that means anything I couldn't tell you. The part that bothers me is that the oldest of our replacement trees are hitting their 6th year here but actually produced well (for their size) in their second year and then stopped.
Another possibility hinges on the loss of one of my best apple trees that died during the drought of 2012. It never did bloom right that Spring and died before the Summer was over and it just so happens that 2011 was the last year we got any real apple production despite the appearance of blooms each Spring since.
Last year we did manage to have a small Peach and Apricot production but no Apples or Pears.
So as I see it there are several different culprits in running for why my trees are not producing. Either it is the weather by itself or combined with faulty identification or tree variety information. It could also be that the loss of my largest producer also resulted in the loss of my best pollinator or it could be that the Apple ecosystem itself needs to mature a few more years to begin producing once again.
If we do not get any Apple production this year it will be the third year of failure and I would like to figure out just what is causing the thing. If it is simply a maturity issue fine but the fact that the older replacement trees did produce in 2011 some seems to discount that being the actual issue.
I used to be a firm believer in fruit trees, especially Apple for a reliable source of food production each year but I am beginning to wonder if I just didn't have a very lucky accident. It would be easier if I had been able to identify the trees that were here originally but even going back and actually talking to people who lived here 70 years ago yielded up no information as to tree type or even age. I have no problem with continuing to try but at this rate I could be a very old man before I ever figure it out.
Or maybe it just needs some more time and better weather and I am just knocking my head against an imaginary wall?
Keep Prepping Everyone!!!
I hope you will do some posts on your grafting secrets. I have had mixed results.
ReplyDeleteRuss - I have no grafting secrets. I want to learn how though I think it would be an important skill to have later on.
DeleteApple trees only have a lifespan of a hundred years or so, and the productive life span is little less than that. That is probably the problem with your older trees. On the younger two year old trees are really too young to let them produce. The best thing to do is pinch off all the buds so they will put all of their energy into the roots. At least for the first few years. Healthy roots make healthy productive trees. If a tree produces too heavily one year it can shift to biannual production while it recovers. If you notice it is trying to produce too heavily pinch some off.
ReplyDeleteAnother problem could be pollination, all the pome fruits (Apples & Pears) require a pollinator. There are four or five pollination groups depending on who you reference. If you're free to rent if you have two trees one in group 2 and one in group 3 they may pollinate each other, but not very well; if they are in group 2 and 4 forget about it, there will be no fruit. Further complicating things some apples are self sterile and require a pollinator but will not polinate anything. If you just need a pollinator you might try a crabapple tree.
The best pollination information I've seen on the web is from the University of Missouri:
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/g6001
Orange Pippin has quite a bit but you have to have a bit find what you're looking for.
http://www.orangepippin.com/
I can also recommend Start Brothers Nursery. I've had good experience with them and there also in Missouri. Be sure to check out their blog and the videos on it. Their customer service is reason enough to do business with them.
http://www.starkbros.com/
Best
Dan
Dan - I am sure my older trees just died of old age as well but I fear the biggest one was my main pollinator and I never was able to ID what it was. I have been to the nursery over in Louisiana Mo a couple of times to that nursery's retail store it is a good source of info but still I have had some issues with the reported bloom times not exactly lining up as it should.
DeleteI need to look at that pippin site some more though that's for sure.
Thanks for the info!!!
Ignore: "If you're free to rent" I was dictating to a tablet
ReplyDeleteMy fruit trees are driving me nuts., No fruit on pears or plums last year due to a late freeze on the blooms and will probably happen again tonight. I just bought 3 apple trees that are supposed to grow in Florida. This will be my second attempt. I have a fig tree that refuses to grow. Who can't grow a fig tree? I planted nectarine trees last year and plucked all of their blooms the first year. I hope to see a few fruit this year. My strawberry plants froze after starting to bloom. If I were relying on fruit to supplement our food, we'd be in heap big trouble. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Vegetables I can grow.
ReplyDeleteMB - The plums around here always produce which is another reason I keep thinking it might be a pollination problem on my end. Maybe my trees just are not mature enough yet.
DeleteFor some reason we almost always get a good strawberry crop too. Blueberries forget it though.
I have peaches and when the weather cooperates the stink bugs destroy the fruit. I am afraid to put more money into fruit trees just to feed bugs. Normal spray doesn't do much to stop those bugs and the spray that does kill them, well you don't want it on fruit. Fruit is almost a thing of the past here unless you spray super toxin on the trees.
ReplyDeleteSf - We got a few peaches off our trees last year but the pests always seem worse on Peach trees and only the older ones seem to produce enough to escape total pest destruction. We get a lot of ant damage that move in with their aphid allies and I noticed that placing some tanglefoot around the tree helped some last year.
DeleteI second Stark Bros as a good source. Any time you buy a tree from them, they send along a planting guide, which contains the info as to which apple trees are A, B & C pollen producers & which pollen each tree requires. Sometimes they are different. If some of the trees are too far from their pollen partners, you can graft in a couple of buds to take care of the problem. While you are waiting for the buds to grow big enough to have blossoms, just prune a few small branches with blossoms, put them in a mason jar with water, & hang it on the tree. As long as the trees are within 1/4 mile of each other, you should be ok.
ReplyDeleteIt could also be a season/pollinator problem. My apricot only gives me fruit every 3-4 years, because the rest of the time the blossoms either freeze, or it is too rainy & cold out for the bees to pollinate. I accept that I will only get fruit every 3-4 years, but when I get it, I get a lot.
SF, my father used to go out to the apple orchard in Jan & Feb during the freezing temps with a wide paintbrush & a 1 lb coffee can, with a few inches of corn oil in it. He would paint the trunks & the large branches, as high as he could reach ( he was 6'2"), and called it his "therapy". The oil altered something on the bugs that got into the fruit, & made it possible for the cold to kill them. Cheap & non-toxic, but somewhat labor intensive.
Marivene - As I mentioned above I have gone to their nursery and I have been attempting to line up my pollinators just not really having the results they say. The whacky and rapidly changing temps seem to be effecting things in funny ways.
DeleteGrafting on shoots in a neat idea though and might work well. I never thought of that but it makes all kinds of sense really. Good idea!!!
I would say what your Father was doing is about the same thing I was doing with the tanglefoot. It does work to keep the pests down.
APPLE PIE!!!
ReplyDeleteAPPLE BUTTER!!!
DeleteWe have several orchards in our area. You drive by them and don't think about what it takes to grow fruit. Look into Honey Crisp apples. I was developed by the U of MN. If it can survive the frozen tundra of Mn, Mo should seem like Fla.
ReplyDeleteRob - I haven't had any issues with the trees surviving. I don't think I have lost one in years although the verdict isn't in for this year yet. My problem is they don't want to bloom together and produce/cross pollinate like they should. Or at least I think that is the main issue.
DeletePP, I don't remember where you are, but if you're in one of the colder climates you might look into St Lawrence nurseries, they produce apple tree stock ( and other fruit and berries ) that is hardy to zone 3 and they carry a lot of heirloom cultivars. They have a planting guide as well. For goodness sakes don't buy anything at one of the big box stores, and don't plant it when it's already leafed out.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/
I agree with Anon about the pollinating, pick out a good crab apple as pollinator, you can always make good jelly from it, feed it to animals, or use it as pectin stock for other jams and jellies.
Miss Violet
MV - Good to see ya again!!! I have a few wild Crab Apple in the border areas and getting the trees to live isn't the issue. We are in zone 5 or 6 depending on the map but the last few years Spring around here has been anything but normal. That is the question though I can't figure out. Is it my pollinators not lining up or the weather not cooperating or both? Very annoying.
DeleteI am interested in all your knowledge on the subject..we planted a peach tree back in the fall up at the Carolina Estate.. and we have a pecan tree up there that did squat...ugggg I was hoping for some pecans.. : (
ReplyDeleteJuGM - I believe Pecan trees require other Pecan trees of a slightly different variety to produce. I know around here we have a couple different types and when they are together they produce so much the limbs break off during the Summer.
DeleteWell, if it is the weather, a tree that does well in a colder climate might be the answer because it will be more cold hardy and not blossom as early.
ReplyDeleteOh, I peek in fairly regularly, I just don't say as much, you know, it pretty much has all been said, it's now time for the doing and I'm just busy doing the things that need to be done, if you know what I mean.
Miss Violet
MV - I understand. Glad to know your still around though :)
DeleteI have 2 semi dwarf apple trees and the ants and aphids got to them. This year will be war...I'm going to try neem and garlic oil spray and I bought a bag of Diatomaceous earth to dust all over the ground and leaves to kill the ants and aphids..Hope it works. Also have a 2 Blueberry bushes that haven't flowered ever in 3 years..Maybe get rid of them and get 6 more? Also thinking of growing Black Elderberries this year..Hope everybody has good crops this year. This is gonna be a hard year for food..
ReplyDeleteGreenbow