This is a matter of my opinion of course but there is really only a fine line between what we generally call a homesteader or sustainable prepper and many of the greenie freak eco loonies.
For instance I have yet to meet a homesteader type that was not generally interested in solar power. Hell I have a solar set up on my shop here at the Small-Hold that has actually managed to take care of our emergency power needs more than once over the years. Most homesteader or sustainable types either already have a solar set up, have researched and plan on adding it in later or just haven't moved it off the to-do list yet but they will. They realize it has benefits but unlike an Eco terrorist they know there is no way solar could anywhere begin to power the type of world the Eco terrorist want to live in or the politicians want to rule over.
Truth is a Sustainable Prepper or Homesteader is probably more Eco Friendly than anyone else you will ever meet and again in my opinion more farsighted and attuned to the only way the world is going to survive the up coming future of peak everything.
No matter how scarce resources become there is a use for every type of energy and resource out there from wood and animal fat to solar technology, liquid fossil fuels and technology yet to come. I am going to take a pass on wind power right now as I am not sure it is ever cost effective or reliable in enough places to even warrant a mention here.
What Sustainable Preppers and Homesteader have a problem with is government sanctioned restrictions and laws that make no sense or are simply tyrannical. Take my word for it what government wants is control of lots of people. Right now many believe the people will decline if they do not embrace Eco rules and regulations. What they don't understand, that all sustainer types or homesteaders can see from the start is there is no way to support the numbers government types want without fossil fuels and tyrannical restrictions.
A politician or Eco Terrorist will smile as 1000's of acres of prime rural land is covered with one acre lots of cookie cutter houses and then regulate wood stoves as illegal for climate reasons. They will bulldoze 100 acres of pristine prairie to make a parking lot for a human food out of bug plant and call it progress while requiring that a small farmer kill his livestock.
This kind of thinking is something a true homesteader can never agree with.
Keep Prepping Everyone!!!!
Simple math shows it has been much cheaper to just buy electricity, than to install solar. The real interest in solar for the homesteader/prepper is the independance and self-sufficiency it offers. Well worth the price, if you have the wherewithall and means to maintain it.
ReplyDeleteSolar is *not* "Eco Friendtly", however. The environmental impact of manufacturing the panels, even just the energy consumed in doing so, outweighs their output over their projected lifespan. Now factor batteries in there by the same measure and its an eco joke.
Fido - Used to be the individual cost of solar was much higher in it's energy investment than it's return especially for the larger projects and in the rare earth mining process. Unofficially there are claims that regardless it's long term impact is still more friendly than the alternatives but that is mostly a matter of opinion weighing in as you say mostly as battery technology has improved.
DeleteOf course as we add in the increased costs of liquid fuels going forward it is going to change the numbers again with one side adding more to the cost and the other claiming it reduces the cost for those already in use. Either way I never really counted small scale solar as anything more than a individual tool myself for the homestead myself not as a climate change tool.
yeah, I'm afraid you're right. I said "has been cheaper", but it looks like that's no longer relevant, and it may well be cheaper going forward with solar, than buying electricity in clown world. Either way, we *need* independance, not just because utilities are unreliable, but because they are being weaponized against us. I think our biggest concern should be the short lifespan of most battery tech. There are some exceptions. Might also be good to consider dry wet cell batteries in preps. (virgin wet cell batteries with their electrolyte stored externally, for long shelf life) They're increasingly hard to find.
DeleteFido - I think you are 100% correct. I wonder if maybe a 6 volt old style type battery might be better in the long term chained together. I know the old 6 volt batteries seem to last forever.
DeleteI really like the old edison formula Nickel/Iron batteries. They have alot of downsides: Expensive (nickel is semiprecious), heavy (not an issue here), self-discharge over weeks (not that important for home solar), High internal resistance (voltage drops on high current demand, can overheat on very high current charging, heavy outgassing and water consumption achieving peak charge) which leads to Low Effeciency (you only get back about 80-85% of the power you put in, vs 90+% for lead/acid) but.....
DeleteThey have an unknown lifespan. Jay Leno has an electric car built by Edison that is still running on the original batteries. (They do need periodic electrolyte replacement, but that's just potassium hydroxide, or sodium hydroxide) and they're just about non-toxic.
Oh, and they're nearly indestructable. They can be discharged to 0v, or even negative, and left that way for months, without degrading, overcharging will consume water and outgas, but will not degrade (if you keep the water up). Their long life and robust nature may have something to do with their chemistry: When they electrolyte reacts witht the plates, the byproduct does *not* go into solution like lead/acid batteries. (you cannot measure their charge state by measuring the specific gravity of the electrolyte like you can with lead/acid)
DeleteWhen I did the math, I *really* didn't want to be trying to replace a large battery bank in my 90s.
Fido - Thanks for the info and experience a good and valuable read!!! All I know personally is my old 6 volt batteries on my oldest tractors can always be counted on while I pretty much loose a 12 volt every year :(
DeletePP, I absolutely agree with you that homesteaders and sustainable preppers are the real eco-conscientious and climate friendly folk. It doesn't take long in the lifestyle to figure out that if we don't take care of things responsibly, they die. If we don't figure out how to perpetuate our resources, we die.
ReplyDeleteI admit that getting started, I was extremely idealistic and a bit naive, but reality is a fantastic teacher. There is a huge difference between theory/opinion and experience. Your example of solar energy is a case in point. It's useful (we have it for a freezer and fridge), but it's expensive to set up, requires constant monitoring, is limited in use, and it's expensive to replace parts (usually batteries). Plus, the true environmental cost of manufacturing and transporting the equipment is hidden. We don't realize what it takes because we don't see it.
The so-called eco-terrorism we're seeing now is an excellent example of the disconnect between ideas and experience. I look at these folks and think, "okay, so your glued yourself to (__insert object here__) and got your face on TV for 6 seconds. Now show us how your lifestyle reflects your beliefs. What do you personally do to address the thing you're protesting?" Dollars to donuts says homesteaders would have them beat every which-away in that department.
Leigh - 100% Homesteaders under stand the whole picture in a cost v. benefit analysis and are far more conscious of how things effect areas they may not even ever see. Most Eco terrorist and politicians want to use it as a tool to bash us with.
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